SWE Toronto started two years ago when a few recent engineering graduates got together and wanted to make a space for themselves in the city where they could speak to other women in the industry and to discuss and resolve the issues they faced in the workplace. Over this time, we have had numerous women help us along the way and for International Women in Engineering Day, we would like to feature them in our blog as a way of recognizing their achievements and show our appreciation for their support.
The following interviews are the personal opinions of the interviewees and do not reflect the opinions of their employers.
Interviewers: Alessandra Massaro and Evangeline Philos
Interviewees: Marilyn Spink, Valerie Davidson, Helen Wojcinski, and Barbara Sylvestre-Williams.
What Is One Piece Of Advice You Have For New And Recent Engineering/Stem Graduates?
MS: Promote yourself and celebrate your small successes. Work hard but not so hard that you have no time to build relationships at various levels within or outside your organizations. Always keep learning!
VD: Discover engineering by exploring as many opportunities as possible.
HW: I truly believe that you have not fully joined the profession until you get your licence. It is vital for new graduates to get those four years of relevant, engineering work experience and make the effort to get their licence as soon as they’re eligible. I cannot stress the importance of this enough.
Another piece of advice that is related to getting your license is ensuring that you research and pursue employers who encourage and support EITs in obtaining their licence, and even better, have a formal training program. It is a great way to assess if they value the licence. One of the goals of the PEO 30 by 30 task force, PEO’s response to an Engineers Canada initiative to raise the percentage of newly licensed engineers to 30% women by 2030, is to engage employers in creating welcoming environments for newly graduated engineers, especially women, in pursuing licensure and staying in the engineering field!
Some other tips: join your PEO chapter, OSPE, or other engineering organizations; get involved in the industry; network and meet other professionals; find a mentor and a sponsor; get your license! And when it seems hard to get through all the licensing process, don’t give up! Reach out to your network to help you get there. Your Professional Engineering license is important and valuable for your engineering career!
How have mentors or sponsors helped you throughout your career?
BSW: Mentors were never obvious. They emerged here and there. 20 years ago there were no programs or groups like SWE. At my age, I enjoy mentoring. Many do not realize I get many lessons and observe tremendous force coming up with the new generation. Not just young professionals but future engineers that are connected to issues in a very specific way and able to solve problems many of older age were told to ignore, or deal with alone.
VD: Mentors were key influences in my decision to pursue graduate studies and to continue on a career path in engineering when I finished. My early mentors were male and they understood the culture – academic and professional – in ways that I did not. They encouraged me to explore different opportunities, to recognize my strengths and to follow my own path.
how do you think men could play a bigger part in supporting women in the engineering industry?
HW: For far too long women have been expected to solve the gender inequity problem in engineering. This is problematic as the root of the inequity faced by women in engineering are attitudinal and behavioural in nature and engrained by societal norms. It is also unreasonable to ask the underrepresented group to solve an issue that is not necessarily understood or acknowledged by the larger majority.
For gender equity to be realized in the profession, men must be onboard with solving the issue and willing to be part of the solution. I was fortunate in that I had many encouraging men throughout my career. My main motivation to study engineering occurred in high school when my brother-in-law, who is an engineer, encouraged me to go into the field because he loved it and thought it was a great profession. Later, I had the opportunity to work at the Ministry of Transportation for supportive male engineering bosses and mentors that encouraged me to pursue and continue in my engineering career. If it was not for these men who were supportive and progressive in their senior roles, I might not be where I am today.
However, there were very few women in senior engineering positions at that time to act as role models. Even today, there aren’t enough women engineers in senior roles. We cannot expect these few senior women to mentor all the young women engineers and EITs. We need more men in engineering taking young women under their wings to mentor and sponsor them. We also need to modify the way that we mentor and sponsor to not only make it more inclusive, but to also more formally integrate it into the workplace and HR policies. Although it must be visibly spearheaded by senior engineering management, HR could also be a key advisor in developing mentoring programs.
Early on in my career there were some senior engineers that would take junior male EITs to the golf club and later mentor them in the clubhouse. Women didn’t really golf that much back then as decisions were being made at the 19th hole. During one of my summer employments, the company I worked for had a golf club. When I asked to join they told me “sorry, it’s only for men”. These attitudes are no longer acceptable but still some of these behaviors, though subtler, remain. It is therefore important for men to find inclusive ways to mentor junior EITs.
How do you envision an ideal world for women in STEM?
MS: Wish#1 - That the “male mad scientist” stereotype of a person who has a passion for science and math no longer exists so young women see themselves as “scientists” and pursue, without hesitation, careers in STEM. Wish #2 – That the leadership of organizations who hire engineers increase their diversity – culture, ethnicity, gender, age, sexual orientation, etc. With increased diversity, it is proven that organizations make better decisions. In engineering, there is a business case to address the needs of their technical talent. Workplaces that support parents will retain them throughout their child raising years. As we know it is women that often take the majority of the burden in child raising.
Have you ever had a major failure or setback in your career? How did you overcome it?
BSW: Absolutely. It happened early in my career where I was in a hostile work environment. I felt alone, without support and surrounded by bullies. At the time I thought "if this is what engineering environment is then I rather not pursue it!". I would like to point out that throughout my undergraduate studies, I worked each summer at various industrial companies and never met with such environment. It can take years to recover and gain confidence back. I left the position and the company. I emerged alive and am successful in my career as a professional engineer. Be kind to yourself! I told myself I would never abuse my status and be a better engineer, opposite of how my career begun. I promised to excel, to teach upcoming generations and, most of all, to create safe and respectful work environment.
Tell us about an accomplishment that you are really proud of.
BSW: Ok here it goes: I completed my graduate studies in 2 years with A average, while working full time, published before my thesis was submitted, defended my thesis 6 months pregnant and was nominated for Governor General Medal for my studies and thesis work. I had a very supportive supervisor Prof. Mehrab Mehrvar. My latest achievement: I am very proud of being able to solve a 3x3 Rubik's cube in under 3 minutes…and now I am a TRAILBLAZER!
VD: I am very proud to be the founding Chair of the Ontario Network of Women in Engineering (ONWiE). ONWiE is a unique collaboration that includes all of the schools and faculties of engineering in Ontario. Members offer a number of outreach programs to dispel stereotypes and show young girls and their parents that there are amazing opportunities in engineering. Since the first Go ENG Girl event in 2005, the number of applications by female students to Ontario engineering programs has tripled. I think I was a catalyst in helping ONWiE get started but it is the continued commitment of the members to collaboration and the leadership of Mary Wells (ONWiE Chair 2013 -2018) that are keys to its success. ONWiE’s achievements demonstrate the value of collective impact and I think this is a strategy that should be considered for other WiE activities.
What do you wish you were able to do that you think will be easier for future generations of women?
VD: I wish that I had a superpower to eliminate human prejudice and the implicit biases that contribute to stereotypes and societal attitudes that are incorrectly framed by gender. Unfortunately these preconceptions affect personal choices that women make at an early age (e.g. will I be popular if I do well in math? should I study engineering?). They also influence STEM workplace culture and hiring and promotion decisions. I realize that complete elimination is an ideal but we need to be persistent in challenging these biases so they do not continue to restrict the number of women who pursue STEM careers.
HW: My main objective for 30 by 30 is that the call to action on addressing this inequity is fully embraced by PEO, and by all men and women engineers. Responsibility for this issue needs to be owned by the entire engineering profession and not just a small group of women engineers. I’m hoping to engage men so that women no longer have to talk to each other about the same issues over and over again.
I’ve been fighting this fight for a long time. In 1990, just two years after obtaining my Professional Engineering license I joined PEO’s Women in Engineering Advisory Committee (WEAC) because I was already dealing with these issues and I was passionate about making positive changes in the profession. Almost 30 years later, it really disheartens me when I hear stories of young women today experiencing many of the barriers that I and my female engineering colleagues faced. I feel like my generation let them down, we did not get the job done.
I believe that one of the biggest barriers facing women engineers is still in the workplace. While more work needs to be done to encourage young women to enroll in engineering, I think we also need to focus on what happens to them once they graduate and how difficult it is for them to find a pathway to licensure and to stay in the profession. In today’s industry, inequity sometimes isn’t felt until after women get their license, perhaps even before that, while they are an EIT. It’s still not as welcoming a career as it can be for women and this needs to change.
While numbers matter, I also believe we need to focus less on the numbers and more on the attitudinal and behavioural issues preventing us from reaching the 30% goal. We need to work on getting women to the finish line of licensure, building up their engineering experience and onward to senior leadership. I’m hoping to pass the baton to the next generation of women leaders like the women in SWE Toronto to carry this issue over the finish line.
Have you ever felt like leaving engineering? Why? What made you stay?
HW: Oh yes, the very first time I walked onto a construction site, the site supervisor told me “you don’t belong here”. I had a really tough introduction to my career because I worked in such a male dominated and often times hostile work environment. There were virtually no other women, no one to look up to or to provide a safe sounding board. I would often ask myself, “why am I doing this to myself? There must be easier ways to make a living!” However, despite wanting to throw in the towel on many occasions, I loved working in the field and seeing how infrastructure was built. I thought it would make me a better engineer.
In fact, I ended up staying for several reasons:
This month we are going to talk about the importance of a having a mentor in our career!
Many accomplished individuals credit their mentors for their successes. There are many examples, some of which include Oprah Winfrey- Maya Angelou and Bill Gates- Warren Buffett. A mentor can teach the mentee the responsibilities of the job, provide guidance on navigating industry’s policies & practices, and create networking opportunities for the young individual.
Many women in STEM fields can benefit from mentorship to help them achieve a long and successful career. It is often challenging to establish a relationship with a mentor, whether formal or informal, often due to lack of female leaders or perceived inaccessibility of mentors. To bridge the gap, we need more women as mentors, and also to foster a culture of mentorship.
For our coffee club discussion, we’ll be focusing on the value of having a mentor and ways we can achieve effective mentorship relationships. Please check out the links below and send us some of your comments!
Questions to think about this month:
Check out the links below for some valuable and handy resources:
This month, we are going to talk about the role of male allies in the battle for truly gender-equal workplaces.
Gender inequality is not only a women’s issue, but we don't hear a lot from men. If men are blind to the gender gap experienced by women, we can hardly expect them to care about it, or to be partners in helping to close it. However – we are never going to achieve an equal workplace if we don’t have those male allies leaning in to meet us partway.
We as women talk about these issues frequently, though often by doing this we leave men out of the conversation. Sometimes, males who do care and have the best intentions still don’t know what to say, or are terrified of being reprimanded for saying the wrong thing – and that is where we can step in.
During our March Coffee Club, we will talk about starting the conversation with our male colleagues, and making sure our voice is heard equally.
Questions to think about:
Check out these articles for some more thinking points!
Men As Allies: Engaging Men to Advance Women in the Workplace
Want to be an ally to women at work?
As a woman, we are often told that we need to negotiate more. Negotiation is important in closing the gender equity gap, and frankly, we often miss opportunities to do it. Men negotiate four times as much as women, 20 percent of women say that they never negotiate at all, and when we do manage to negotiate, on average, women get 30% less. This is a contributing factor to the fact that women are still earning 74 cents on the dollar to men.
Like it or not, we have a responsibility to negotiate for ourselves in order to advance our place in society. That said, negotiating can be much easier said than done. There are inherent benefits to every negotiation, but there can also be inherent risks. As women in engineering in particular, we are used to calculating risk, and the potential social costs and unclarity of negotiation can act as a major deterrent. So what are we to do about this?
In our coffee club, we’re going to focus on three main points: how to identify opportunities where you can negotiate in work and in life, how to overcome obstacles to negotiations, and how to ask for things in the right way (ie. – the best way that works for you). Here are some questions to think about before this Saturday’s coffee session:
Here are some articles to get thinking, read away and let's discuss.
We hope you had a great holiday season and are ready to jump right back into our monthly coffee club discussions!
This month, in the spirit of new years, new beginnings and new resolutions, we want to focus on career planning, the importance of setting goals and the importance of the three year plan.
First, let's get inspired by a great TED talk! Then take a look at the following articles, send us some of your own in the comments section and get ready for deep dive discussions into career planning.
Why should I plan my career?
How do I put together an effective plan?
But... How far ahead should I plan?
Don't feel like reading? Not a problem; here are some great podcasts to get into:
This month at Coffee Club we will be discussing Career Transitions and will try to cover the following questions that one might consider when deciding whether or not to move on.
How do we know it is time to leave a company?
What is it that makes us want to stay in a company?
Are women more likely to be loyal to a company than their male counterparts?
What should you ask yourself before deciding to leave a company?
How to leave gracefully and not burn bridges?
Is employee loyalty overrated?
Do we need to leave to move up?
Below are some articles to inform the conversation. We welcome all SWE Toronto members to get involved in the conversation early and post some of your own articles and opinions below! What have your experiences been with career transitions? What advice would you give fellow SWEsters? What questions do you have on the topic?
Coffee club is back on this month. Please check out the engaging and contentious article for discussion this month and share your thoughts!
Why Do Women Bully Each Other at Work? by Olga Khazan
P.S. You can listen to the audio version of this article: The Queen Bee in the Corner Office - The Atlantic - Olga Khazan
We come from all walks of life, but we have one thing in common: a common passion. We have a drive to create, to solve problems, and to make the world a better place. And thus, we became engineers. Each of us had a unique route here. Perhaps you always knew you wanted to be an engineer, or perhaps you only learned about the profession at a career fair in high school. Regardless, you ended up here.
For many of us women in engineering, we thrived in the classroom; solving problems and learning calculus and physics (or whatever your subjects of preference were). We were thrilled to enter the engineering world and start actually applying all our hard-earned skills to make a difference. Yet, things did not work out quite like we planned. No, it wasn't all the meetings and documentation and red tape that threw us off - yes those can be annoying, but they are simply parts of the profession we love. It was the attitude we faced. The invisible barriers that kept us down and prevented us from making the impact of which we were capable. We were often left questioning our abilities. Meanwhile, many of our male colleagues seemed to be thriving. And thus we would think, "it must just be in my head" or "I guess I'm not as good as I used to be."
Perhaps the struggles you faced were blatant: outright sexual harassment in the workplace or vocal dismissal of your ideas because of your gender. But for most of us, it was quite a bit more subtle: people talking over you in meetings, no one listening to your ideas until a male colleague repeats them as his own, or constantly having to prove your capabilities and qualifications while male colleagues were just assumed competent. Each slight in and of itself is minor and easy to write off. But think of it this way. Imagine that every time something like this happens, it is like someone flicking you on the arm. If it happens once then it is a little annoying, hurts a little, but goes away pretty quickly and is easily forgotten. What if that started happening multiple times a day, every day, in the same place. That spot would probably get pretty sore. And you would probably get pretty frustrated about it. And imagine if every time your tried to tell people about it they would dismiss it ("oh, it doesn't sound as bad as you're making it out to be" or "it didn't mean anything, no big deal, just move on"). But these built up over time and eventually, you just can't take it any more. And thus, a significant proportion of women in engineering end up leaving the profession mid-career. Not only is this troublesome and demoralizing for the women facing these problems, it is also a huge loss of wonderful talent from the engineering profession.
Now, people are not typically entering the workforce with the intention of committing these minor slights, but they happen just the same. It is called implicit bias and we all have it. Often times, your implicit biases came from general ideals and values that were instilled in you when you were just learning to talk. You didn't even know it was happening; it was simply how your brain was wired by the world to which you were exposed. And the vast majority of the time, you are completely unaware that you have these implicit biases. And thus, completely unaware of the effect that these biases have on the world around you.
Here at SWE Toronto, we found each other through our shared experiences in this field and through our desire to try to make a difference. To help ourselves, to help other women facing similar problems, and to improve the field of engineering at large. Day by day, we are working to inform, to connect, to build a community, and to help. If any of this resonates with you, we hope you reach out to us and join our community! We are continuously working on new initiatives to try and improve the engineering world and we would love for you to join us in our quest.
Thank you for your time and welcome to our website!
Many thanks to Kate Brockman for this post.
Kate is a Professional Engineer with a bachelor’s in Nanotechnology Engineering and a master’s in Chemical/Biomedical Engineering. Kate has five years of industry experience and is currently pursuing her MD degree and intending on applying her engineering background to medicine.
Kate is passionate about translating research into real-world applications. She uses this passion to help women, men, and organizations find ways to improve gender equity in the workplace to drive success and shares her thought with SWEsters every now and again through the SWEster Blog!